|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:49:00 -
[1]
I have all tons of skills in Gallente and Hybrids. By all rights I should kick ass. I did a one on one against a friends Retribution in my Ishkur. He ripped me apart. Tracking on lasers is sick to go with the damage. My blasters on the other hand were borked.
Blasters, for how close you have to get and everything, should be absolute face melters. No real fall off or range but they should kick out incredible damage. Instead they are out classed by projectiles and lasers who have numerous advantages over them. I mean seriously, fix this. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:13:00 -
[2]
Thing is blasters are supposed to be the face melters. They have not melted a face in quite awhile though. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Wa'roun Edited by: Wa''roun on 08/07/2011 22:09:15
Originally by: Kumq uat I have all tons of skills in Gallente and Hybrids. By all rights I should kick ass. I did a one on one against a friends Retribution in my Ishkur. He ripped me apart. Tracking on lasers is sick to go with the damage. My blasters on the other hand were borked.
Blasters, for how close you have to get and everything, should be absolute face melters. No real fall off or range but they should kick out incredible damage. Instead they are out classed by projectiles and lasers who have numerous advantages over them. I mean seriously, fix this.
Did you fit a web and scram? What level drone skills? T2 blasters? Meta 4? Faction or T2 ammo? TD?
So many unknowns here.
WTF do you think? I have only been here since fricken 2005. Of course I used t2 modules and faction ammo.And yes, kick ass drone skills too. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:49:00 -
[4]
Hey guys. Remember when the Deimos was a good ship? I don't either. Blasters have needed love for awhile, especially with various drone changes that have come in that allowed to compensate for the lack. The other guns also didn't have the boosts they now have. What allowed the Gallente to stay competitive were their drone ships. Especially setups like the Nos Domi. Then Nos got the nerf bat. Neut Domis are still nasty but it really hurt the last fall back for Gallente pilots. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 01:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Digital Messiah Edited by: Digital Messiah on 09/07/2011 00:45:24
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 09/07/2011 00:03:14
Originally by: Digital Messiah But how much really needs to be changed to balance out hybrid turrets?
Not much really. Most hybrid platforms need a little more pg, or the turrets less pg requirements. A slight bump around 5% in raw damage output maybe as icing on the cake, thats it.
That goes for medium and large hybrids, smalls are perfectly fine as is and the ships that use them among the most powerful in game.
The most important part in 'fixing hybrids' is actually 'fixing the players', which is beyond the power of CCP unfortunately.
It is here that I have to, to some degree, disagree with your opinion. Although I am certain that some players maybe able to cope and use versatile builds to compensate. It is imperative to view the disadvantages of the system. It is not fair to provide a theory based on player skill alone either. Otherwise it would be easy to deduce that all minmatar pilots were inherently better skilled because of their performance.
I spent quite some time putting together those spreadsheets to show the differences of our paper math. Before posting please assume that on average pilot skill isn't pro, there maybe a problem with something that even talented veterans complain about, and not everyone who plays this game has all level 5 skills in turret support and ship skills.
"Oh well, EFT says with perfect skills and overheating a megathron can get in range to apply this much dmg." - many arguments... Load that up in a skill plan for me, all level 5. Then explain to me how that is viable when a large percentage of pvp'ers don't have it. Or if they do, they are not wasting that much SP flying anything under a capital for pvp.
TL;DR - The purpose of this change isn't to solely effect those with years of training in hybrids. The main goal is to make leveling and using them from start to finish viable.
I have those skills at 5 and it is still crap compared to everything else. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 06:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead If they fix gallente guns, it will just be another shiptype to train for fleet FOTM fits..
Still waiting for you to make a point about something. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel
Originally by: Onyx Blackman Edited by: Onyx Blackman on 09/07/2011 16:55:54
Originally by: Demon Azrakel Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 09/07/2011 16:41:53
Originally by: Onyx Blackman Replace the garbage 7.5% repair bonuses on Gallente blasterboats with falloff bonuses.
So blasters become poor autocannons that use cap on some ships...awesome.
I agree with the nice lady
No. You're an idiot.
Blasters easily out DPS autocannons and have comparable if not better tracking than any autocannon except smalls, the issue is their range and fitting requirements. Falloff as opposed to optimal gives them a far bigger working distance and allows a larger variety of ship setups.
Nevertheless, the whole point of blasters is that they have poor range and optimal, but make up for it in damage. Balancing it to give it a more similar engagement range and damage profile over that range is merely working to remove the differences between the weapons. By adding damage and tracking, we would be working to enhance those differences and not change the point of using blasters, but make them worth their drawbacks.
|
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 09/07/2011 16:41:53
Originally by: Onyx Blackman Replace the garbage 7.5% repair bonuses on Gallente blasterboats with falloff bonuses.
So blasters become poor autocannons that use cap on some ships...awesome.
No. You're an idiot.
Blasters easily out DPS autocannons and have comparable if not better tracking than any autocannon except smalls, the issue is their range and fitting requirements. Falloff as opposed to optimal gives them a far bigger working distance and allows a larger variety of ship setups.
Nevertheless, the whole point of blasters is that they have poor range and optimal, but make up for it in damage. Balancing it to give it a more similar engagement range and damage profile over that range is merely working to remove the differences between the weapons. By adding damage and tracking, we would be working to enhance those differences and not change the point of using blasters, but make them worth their drawbacks.
It wouldn't change the 'point of using blasters', it would just make them viable. They would still provide the absolute face-raping DPS they're capable of now, but at engagement ranges that are in line with the current state of combat mechanics. Pulses give great DPS at long ranges with bad tracking, ACs give low DPS at flexible ranges with a variety of damage types with no cap usage, blasters would still give huge DPS at short ranges with amazing tracking and fairly high cap usage.
Giving them higher DPS is just redundant and ignoring the source of the problem.
Pulses absolutely do not have bad tracking. Dunno where you got that. I have used Pulses myself to great effect on taking down speeding interceptors. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 23:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Grimpak not this again.
ok I'm going to post this one last time
the issue with hybrids is a complex one.
on blasters, it's a conjunction of ships being slow together with guns that provide only a small increase of damage for too many drawbacks.
only ships that have some success in blaster configs is the shield hype and the shield brutix (quite the irony really), provided you have some tackle help, because that way you don't get your mobility nerfed to the whazoo and you can actually make your damage go up because of the myriad of lows available; and small ships because they are already very fast and agile and nobody in their sane mind plates up a taranis/enyo/daredevil.
to make the agility penalty of armor tanked blasterships even worse, active armor tanking isn't really stellar compared to plate tanks, and the nano nerf killed the only mod that could make blasters kinda break even (web) together with nerfing mobility of a setup that already had mobility issues.
to top all this, the web nerf killed the relative tracking of a gun that already provided only 5-10% more dps over their nearest counterpart, the pulses, that have a range advantage that can go over 300%, and have a much better relative tracking (even if the base tracking of a pulse is lower than their blaster counterpart).
proposition to fix (medium and large) blasters would be increase their damage substantially, increase their tracking moderately, and making them totally useless beyond scram range, while revisiting armor plates and armor rig penalties so that they aren't as punitive as they are now, together with making blaster ships faster in a straight line by increasing speed to levels comparable to minmatar ships, but not agility.
this way they still have their niche, and they don't step on any other weapon systems' toes.
on the rail issue, while less complex than the blaster issue, it is actually one where a good "fix", where you maintain a status quo between weapon systems, is actually quite hard to come by with.
rails have the biggest optimals in game. issue is that nowadays, anything that shoots beyond 150km is superfulous, making the rails range advantage, moot.
beams have higher dps, while arties provide a much better burst damage, even if they have shorter optimals
this issue is even more extrapolated with the fact that many caldari gunships (the ones that are supposed to be the rail platforms by excellence), seem to lack grid in a way that makes you think that CCP must want you to fit your lowslots with either power diags, RCU's, or a mix of both. most glaring examples are the eagle, where it's almost impossible to fit a full rack of 250's with anything else, and the tengu, where the grid subsystem, supposedly the sub that complements the rail offensive sub, has the lowest grid of all the engineering subs (550mw? really CCP?).
there is no real "fix" to rails besides increasing grid on caldari gunships however.
increasing damage is another fix to rails but it's still not enough. other ways to fix them would be by actually nerfing on-grid probing and increasing the targetting cap, but while on the first it might be hard to make it, on the second there are some can of worms that would open.
Grimpak for CCP dev! --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:08:00 -
[10]
I remember back when the Drake was first released and I did not realize just how strong of a tank it had. I was hunting in my Arazu about a system out from Amamake and I came across one in a belt. So I uncloak, scram and damp him so he can't do anything to me and proceed to unleash my hell storm.
After about 5 minutes of trying to grind into his tank and realizing I couldn't beat his recharge he informed me that some guys from his corp would show up in around 30 minutes or so and I was forced to slink away in defeat. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
|
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kumq uat on 15/07/2011 18:20:15 I think the common consensus is better damage, better tracking, and relaxed fitting requirements yeah?
I do kind of like the shotgun analogy. Have some splash damage but I dont think it would work well. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
|
|
|